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癌细胞的发生可能是一种“返祖”现象?     [复制链接]

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发表于 2010-12-22 20:45 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 sunsong7 于 2010-12-22 20:46 编辑
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! c2 y" g8 D/ Y非常欣赏marrowstem 渊博的知识和独到的思维方式,感谢marrowstem在讨论过程中所提出的许多重要观点!
$ w; y8 Z& ]' A7 C% e+ r( h在marrowstem 的启发下本人接触到许多过去未涉足的知识领域,包括他的许多生动科普性读物和和非常有价值观点;' J# o! f; m7 R" @+ o: \8 J1 I4 q
未知者无畏——虽然明知自己的观点十分幼稚,但希望这些讨论能启发更多人对癌症的思考。
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发表于 2010-12-22 23:43 |只看该作者
有意思,生命的进化从癌细胞开始,生命体的诞生也从与癌细胞极其相似的ES开始,最终生命体总是因癌细胞的产生而结束,难道癌细胞是上帝用来控制生命的工具?呵呵……
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发表于 2011-1-12 20:48 |只看该作者
回复 sunsong7 的帖子
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如果你相信你的观点,就继续研究下去,科学没有权威,总的来说,我偏向返祖的观点。但不是返祖那么简单。毕竟细胞是从单细胞进化来的,返祖是很自然的,至于走了什么路,多大程度返祖,需要研究。从marrowstem那里确实学到很多知识,但是都不是绝对的证据。
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发表于 2011-1-13 23:25 |只看该作者
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hylok 发表于 2010-12-18 14:49 # V! b' U( f% c; d( I, i1 C7 _+ J
我倒觉得癌症更像生物自动凋亡的机制。
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癌症机制就是当机体细胞出现变异之后的自我凋亡机制,或者说个体的迅速凋亡机制,一个奋斗不息的人,机体免疫力强,不大容易生癌症,相反一个悲观厌世、情绪抑郁的人却容易患癌症。一个人机体老化、损伤后,生存能力下降,已经不能代表人类生力军,这种人患癌迅速凋亡对于纯化人类、提升竞争力是有益的,因此癌症机制也打上了种群选择的烙印。一个生物生癌症死亡并不会传染别人,不会污染环境,是一种干净的死法。(大自然很残酷)
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海洋让我说明论据,论据就在这些现象的推理之中,对于这类判断,只有这样的论据了。这其实是个视角问题,现象与事实吻合,就已经证明了理论。如果说与现在的科学共同体之间缺乏衔接,那可能是现在的科学认识的局限。任何理论都是认识世界和获得方法的指导。我们不能说相对论与牛顿力学那个更先进,对于不同问题,用着顺手的理论就是好理论。用邓小平先生的话说就是黑猫白猫逮着老鼠就是好猫。
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发表于 2011-1-26 14:50 |只看该作者
回复 weiyepan 的帖子( H% q* J9 ]6 H# `5 B# k
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应该很有意思,下了看看,感谢分享!

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发表于 2011-4-16 23:59 |只看该作者
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癌症是一种返祖现象?


2 J- o( V  ~, |  l0 H" K# {" T' n9 i0 \2011-02-10 11:112011-02-09 15:30:48 作者:歆塬 来源:化石网
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9 L  h4 |& ?! {: `; D4 O摘要: 图:上排为正常的乳房细胞,下排为乳腺癌症细胞;左列显示整个细胞,灰色区域为细胞质,中列显示细胞核形态,右列显示细胞核DNA密度变化 澳大利亚国立大学的天体生物学家Paul Davies教授及其同伴在研究 ...  f: h# f2 b, Y& ]9 H5 s

0 ~9 i1 W  M  `, K, Q# [" xTwo scientists, including ASU’s Paul Davies, write about the idea that cancer has ancient evolutionary roots in a paper released Feb. 7 in the journal Physical Biology. Davies heads up the Center for the Convergence of Physical Sciences and Cancer Biology at ASU, a major research initiative funded by the National Cancer Institute. His center is investigating insights from physical science on cancer cells, similar to the ones in this image. Shown here, the upper row shows a normal breast cell with a smooth nuclear membrane of regular shape. The bottom row shows an aggressive breast cancer cell with a distinctively irregular nucleus and overall shape. The left column shows the whole cell, with the cytoplasm appearing as a gray haze. The middle column shows the naked nuclear membrane and the right column shows density variations in the nuclear DNA. (Credit: Image courtesy of Vivek Nandakumar, Center for Biosignatures Discovery Automation, Biodesign Institute, Arizona State University)7 s' y8 N" R8 z; ^! t

" e6 e' F. I. M澳大利亚国立大学的天体生物学家Paul Davies教授及其同伴在研究癌症治愈方法的过程中发现,癌症细胞并非是一类偶然产生的“无赖”细胞,而是在漫长的演化过程中对环境压力进行有效适应的结果。
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5 B! t, {* q* [7 ^  A: `( eDavies和他的同伴认为,癌症细胞能够重新使用十几亿年前的细胞基因途径,那个时候,疏松的细胞群刚开始聚集在一起形成多细胞生命形式,Davies将其称为后生动物一代(Metazoa 1.0)。当然,这个时候的多细胞生命体的功能细胞完整度以及器官分化程度都远远不及现代多细胞生命。Davies进一步推测说,后生动物一代的那种能产生结构较疏松生命体的基因至今仍然存在,只不过被后来演化出的能控制更复杂而精确的生理机能的基因所抑制住了。因此,一旦由于某些因素而将这一抑制作用释放,古老的基因形式又会再次出现,令人害怕的癌症细胞也就应运而生。肿瘤就是后生动物一代在现代生命体中的再次出现,在这种情况下,癌症的发生仅是时间问题而已。/ ]* x! U$ _, M! A; b. n9 E

. o! o; b1 G2 R如果Davies的理论是正确的,那么这种最简单生命体的基因组很容易逃避身体的控制并且产生对化学疗法的抗性。不过,细胞只能采取有限的基因途径来使其不断产生基因不稳定性和危害性,那么,在即将到来的个性化医药时代,癌症或许能被某些特定的药物所控制。
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这项研究向肿瘤学家表明,癌症是一种有限的且可以预测的返祖性症状,且这种症状不会有任何变化,在谁的身上都一样。当然,结论也为生命起源的研究提供了重要的线索。0 y; G; _1 }8 m# [3 K
http://www.uua.cn/news/show-11095-1.html
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Conceptualizing Cancer Cells as Ancient 'Toolkit'


: _2 z8 ]2 o) ]0 Y7 X3 SScienceDaily (Feb. 8, 2011) — Despite decades of research and billions of dollars, cancer remains a major killer, with an uncanny ability to evade both the body's defenses and medical intervention. Now an Arizona State University scientist believes he has an explanation.
* L+ e! R  j! T& i( thttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110207133704.htm
% x* h* E- }" a3 O1 z"Cancer is not a random bunch of selfish rogue cells behaving badly, but a highly-efficient pre-programmed response to stress, honed by a long period of evolution," claims professor Paul Davies, director of the BEYOND Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science at ASU and principal investigator of a major research program funded by the National Cancer Institute designed to bring insights from physical science to the problem of cancer.
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) p; v+ O/ q/ S& WIn a paper published online Feb. 7 in the UK Institute of Physics journal Physical Biology, Davies and Charles Lineweaver from the Australian National University draw on their backgrounds in astrobiology to explain why cancer cells deploy so many clever tricks in such a coherent and organized way.
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3 z7 i) j& Q& gThey say it's because cancer revisits tried-and-tested genetic pathways going back a billion years, to the time when loose collections of cells began cooperating in the lead-up to fully developed multicellular life. Dubbed by the authors "Metazoa 1.0," these early assemblages fell short of the full cell and organ differentiation associated with modern multicellular organisms -- like humans.
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0 g6 q1 a  Y1 T6 b4 j  tBut according to Davies and Lineweaver, the genes for the early, looser assemblages -- Metazoa 1.0 -- are still there, forming an efficient toolkit. Normally it is kept locked, suppressed by the machinery of later genes used for more sophisticated body plans. If something springs the lock, the ancient genes systematically roll out the many traits that make cancer such a resilient form of life -- and such a formidable adversary.
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"Tumors are a re-emergence of our inner Metazoan 1.0, a throwback to an ancient world when multicellular life was simpler," says Davies. "In that sense, cancer is an accident waiting to happen."
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8 o# L& j! Z* i2 v. n7 {If Davies and Lineweaver are correct, then the genomes of the simplest multicellular organisms will hide clues to the way that cancer evades control by the body and develops resistance to chemotherapy. And their approach suggests that a limited number of genetic pathways are favored by cells as they become progressively genetically unstable and malignant, implying that cancer could be manageable by a finite suite of drugs in the coming era of personalized medicine.
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* O7 ~) d4 q3 C, N4 n0 K- k"Our new model should give oncologists new hope because cancer is a limited and ultimately predictable atavistic adversary," says Lineweaver. "Cancer is not going anywhere evolutionarily; it just starts up in a new patient the way it started up in the previous one."3 U& ~* r  c( S1 V7 l9 C

9 H* s) m% U4 B! K* \, Q$ _The authors also believe that the study of cancer can inform astrobiology. "It's not a one-way street," says Davies. "Cancer can give us important clues about the nature and history of life itself."
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3 W. v' i: a4 _( oStory Source:
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The above story is reprinted (with editorial adaptations by ScienceDaily staff) from materials provided by Arizona State University.
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Journal Reference:. x; }3 U- p, j, E" o: g: a
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1.P. C. W. Davies, C. H. Lineweaver. Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes of ancient ancestors. Physical Biology, 2011; 8: 015001 DOI: 10.1088/1478-3975/8/1/015001
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1 G6 W) q" ]1 X2 k; H  @/ e/ s$ i; D癌—基因的返祖现象5 b6 g9 y; ^* v! X; _
作者:袁永群 顾美皎 所在机构:同济医科大学附属同济医院妇产科
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摘要:基因重复是生物进化的重要来源,在此基础上可产生基因倒转,移位,替换,缺失等基因重排,为原始基因保留在高等生物基因库中提供了可能。早期胚胎发育的基因控制和真核细胞的起源,反映基因重复知基因进化地历程肿瘤形成过程中,原始基因在特定的微环境作用下,被激活表达,而形成肿瘤。我们认为癌症是基因的返祖现象。
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发表于 2011-4-17 00:21 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 sunsong7 于 2011-4-17 00:38 编辑
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癌肿瘤是原始的多细胞生物+ T- R& [$ U2 J% d  `: w

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Cancer tumors as Metazoa 1.0: tapping genes of ancient ancestors

   
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PCWDavies1 and C H Lineweaver2


# c8 _* h' l) \7 xPhys. Biol. 8 (2011) 015001  |" p+ R' ]$ y0 V$ S
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Abstract/ w$ {% @* ^4 a
The genes of cellular cooperation that evolved with multicellularity about a billion years ago are the same genes that malfunction to cause cancer. We hypothesize that cancer is an atavistic  condition that occurs when genetic or epigenetic malfunction unlocks an ancient ‘toolkit’ of pre-existing adaptations, re-establishing the dominance of an earlier layer of genes that controlled loose-knit colonies of only partially differentiated cells, similar to tumors. The existence of such a toolkit implies that the progress of the neoplasm in the host organism differs distinctively from normal Darwinian evolution. Comparative genomics and the phylogeny of basal metazoans, opisthokonta and basal multicellular eukaryotes should help identify the relevant genes and yield the order in which they evolved. This order will be a rough guide to the reverse order in which cancer develops, as mutations disrupt the genes of cellular cooperation. Our proposal is consistent with current understanding of cancer and explains the paradoxical rapidity with which cancer acquires a suite of mutually-supportive complex abilities. Finally we make several predictions and suggest ways to test this model.
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# `' z( n: G8 D9 s天文学家:癌是十亿年前的类生物
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Cancer resembles life 1 billion years ago, say astrobiologists

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Cancer is an evolutionary throwback, resembling early multicellular life, and flourishes when the more evolutionarily recent genes that regulate cellular cooperation fail.
- R3 m8 B# d, A8 l; c9 ]Tim Dean (Australian Life Scientist)08 February, 2011 6 z, E0 T! R+ {8 c1 J$ Z# S5 ~

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Sometimes stepping back and looking at the big picture can lend new clarity to an ongoing debate. In this case, it took the distant perspective of astrobiologists to reckon the origins of cancer.
0 L2 j1 d. z8 S* nThe astrobiologists, working with oncologists in the US, have suggested that cancer resembles ancient forms of life that flourished between 600 million and 1 billion years ago.2 c; d' ~# w, |7 V& X$ H' _6 j  ?
Read more about what this discovery means for cancer research.
! d4 c1 H$ f! o4 `) G3 }) HThe genes that controlled the behaviour of these early multicellular organisms still reside within our own cells, managed by more recent genes that keep them in check.' H5 H4 D# p3 U# {4 _
It's when these newer controlling genes fail that the older mechanisms take over, and the cell reverts to its earlier behaviours and grows out of control.: O& {6 m" B, P/ }+ e4 _
The new theory, published in the journal Physical Biology, has been put forward by two leading figures in the world of cosmology and astrobiology: Paul Davies, director of the Beyond Center for Fundamental Concepts in Science, Arizona State University; and Charles Lineweaver, from the Australian National University." N1 J7 O; A6 k) Y8 `" |) V1 i# |
In the paper, they suggest that a close look at cancer shows similarities with early forms of multicellular life.+ n8 T. [* p5 b9 X
"'Advanced' metazoan life of the form we now know, i.e. organisms with cell specialization and organ differentiation, was preceded by colonies of eukaryotic cells in which cellular cooperation was fairly rudimentary, consisting of networks of adhering cells exchanging information chemically, and forming self-organized assemblages with only a moderate division of labor," they write.
8 X% I. \7 H! Q0 @% B) Y$ _2 t4 l, ?+ YAccording to Lineweaver, this suggests that cancer is an atavism, or an evolutionary throwback.  I# _1 c$ n: b3 {) b+ B2 E+ q
“Unlike bacteria and viruses, cancer has not developed the capacity to evolve into new forms. In fact, cancer is better understood as the reversion of cells to the way they behaved a little over one billion years ago, when humans were nothing more than loose-knit colonies of only partially differentiated cells.
( J' q; e$ ], a( b“We think that the tumours that develop in cancer patients today take the same form as these simple cellular structures did more than a billion years ago,” he said. / h) l# _4 ^/ m$ S) Z5 W( }
In a way, the genes that controlled this early multi-cellular form of life are like a computer operating system's 'safe mode', and when there are failures or mutations in the more recent genes that manage the way cells specialise and interact to form the complex life of today, then the earlier level of programming takes over.
. B: ~0 F) X+ q3 GOne piece of evidence to support this theory is that cancers appear in virtually all metazoans, with the notable exception of the bizarre naked mole rat.
% x" p/ P& M$ l9 k"This quasi-ubiquity suggests that the mechanisms of cancer are deep-rooted in evolutionary history, a conjecture that receives support from both paleontology and genetics," they write.
8 ~+ G3 l$ o! DTheir notion is in contrast to a prevailing theory that cancer cells are 'rogue' cells that evolve rapidly within the body, overcoming the normal slew of cellular defences.
% R  {, M  g) UHowever, Davies and Lineweaver point out that cancer cells are highly cooperative with each other, if competing with the host's cells. This suggests a pre-existing complexity that is reminiscent of early multicellular life.
) g( `$ r9 ?- q9 z0 @1 p* G; u& dThey also point out that cancers' manifold survival mechanisms are predictable, and unlikely to emerge spontaneously through evolution within each individual in such a consistent way.
+ g9 _* o, B5 ?  z3 r: W7 YThe good news is that this means combating cancer is not necessarily as complex as if the cancers were rogue cells evolving new and novel defence mechanisms within the body.
, o8 P3 g9 ~2 C8 e/ p$ p& }) H7 fInstead, because cancers fall back on the same evolved mechanisms that were used by early life, we can expect them to remain predictable, thus if they're susceptible to treatment, it's unlikely they'll evolve new ways to get around it.! w2 w8 D, i: z
"Given cancer’s formidable complexity and diversity, how might one make progress toward controlling it? If the atavism hypothesis is correct, there are new reasons for optimism," they write.
5 @/ J5 ]6 t' f. }; G8 ~3 f! w"The postulated toolkit of Metazoa 2.0, although admittedly complex, is nevertheless a fixed and finite feature of multicellular life. The number of tools in the kit is not infinite. What one cancer learns cannot be passed on to the next generation of cancers in other patients. % l& N$ d+ F$ I2 T  t# B; B) g/ A
"Cancer is not going anywhere evolutionarily; it just starts up all over again in the next patient.", F9 `- J; Y0 i4 F: H
They also suggest that new therapies could concentrate on the existing cellular regulation mechanisms that have evolved to keep these ancient genes in check.
5 T8 H  H7 W) kThe paper is available online at the Physical Biology site. / i2 [( j4 q/ V( W7 G# K4 `; j& s

; Y$ A3 p) ]: v! g0 Q8 ~http://www.lifescientist.com.au/ ... ay_astrobiologists/
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发表于 2011-4-17 08:46 |只看该作者
我同意sunsong的意见,不同意marrowstem的意见
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发表于 2011-4-17 09:17 |只看该作者
本帖最后由 kjeldahl 于 2011-4-17 09:20 编辑 : Y- o! v& d8 A

" v. t* O" @3 Y) P2 alz v5这给力,知识量这大。。癌细胞到底是什么,现在也只能从逻辑上定义,不像我们认为的那样容易分类。癌细胞是在体细胞基础上进行了reprogramming,他形成的更像是一种tissue而不是简单的块。他更乐于分泌大量的信号分子,去刺激正常细胞发生变化,来为自己服务。他能不能分化是关键,这个报到没有看到。所以我的想法是癌细胞是特化的正常细胞,全能性受到了损伤,目地比较单一:为了生长而生长。是一种畸形的“进化”
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: J, m8 S7 b+ v  K: u/ U% ?附两个文献  这个比较经典,我对这了解的也不多,欢迎指正,,共同进步 。。
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发表于 2011-4-17 11:20 |只看该作者
开阔眼见了!!没想到早在90年代就有人提出癌是一种基因返租的现象。总体来看,癌症的发生归根到底是“人祸”,人们在自然活动过程中将自然环境、生存环境改变,譬如环境恶化、空气污染、以及各种化工元素、重金属、污染物等等,促发了人类生命起源的最为原始的“本事”-----不断生长! 结果导致了癌!
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